PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Can I just confirm who we have on the phone? We have Ms Chan?

PN2

MS CHAN: Yes.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Zadel?

PN4

MS ZADEL: Yes, Vice President.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Bhatt?

PN6

MS BHATT: Yes, Vice President.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And Mr Robson?

PN8

MR ROBSON: Yes, Vice President.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think there's no one else on the phone. I bought the matter on for telephone directions because I think we can do it readily today rather than inconvenience the parties. Since we last met we've dealt with and received correspondence from the applicants originally seeking coverage to vary the award in the fund raising charity industry from Oxfam, Greenpeace, Amnesty International and Australia for UNHCR. They have advised the Commission that, for the moment at least, their claims are not being pursued. That removes one of the substantive matters.

PN10

As I understand it the parties are in the process of putting together their draft determinations for 8 May 2017, and I wanted to find out is that of course will deal with all the technical matters. Are there any matters still unresolved? Originally the unresolved matters were the proposal to vary classification definitions and coverage to include family day care. So could any of the parties tell me whether those matters are still pursued?

PN11

MS ZADEL: Vice President, Ms Zadel for AFEI. I understand that those two outstanding matters in relation to classification and coverage are matters that were originally applied for from the ASU and from CCSA. As far as AFEI is aware we're not aware that it's being pursued or not and it's a bit difficult today as it appears that those two parties are not present at the mention today.

PN12

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's true. All right.

PN13

MR ROBSON: Just with the ASU's absence, I spoke to Justin Cooney, the ASU's advocate, just before dialling in to this telephone conference. He said that he sent his telephone details to your Chambers, Vice President, the other day and hadn't received a response and he hasn't been dialled into the teleconference.

PN14

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Apparently we've tried to call him, my Associate advises me, and he's not picking up.

PN15

MR ROBSON: Okay.

PN16

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I guess we could try to link him in again. Have you got another number there, Mr Robson?

PN17

MR ROBSON: I have his mobile phone number. I could give you that. It's (number supplied).

PN18

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. We'll try to add him in. Apart from getting on to Mr Robson, there are no other issues left, are there, in this matter the parties are aware of?

PN19

MS BHATT: Vice President, if I may, it's Ms Bhatt here for Ai Group. It's possible that I misheard your Honour earlier. But I thought I heard your Honour say that the parties have been given until 8 May to file a draft determination or a short outline, and I think your Honour said the facts in relation to the technical matters, I have to confirm that my understanding is that that direction is in relation to quite a significant number of the standard variations that are being pursued by the parties. I wonder if any of my colleagues are able to assist me in that.

PN20

MS ZADEL: Ms Zadel, AFEI again. So the matters that will be subject to the submissions on 8 May 2017 are substantive matters. As I understand it the technical and drafting matters have been resolved.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. I must have misread that, sorry. So these are the matters that you're going to put your submissions in and then seek the Full Bench to set down a hearing. Is that what's going to happen?

PN22

MS ZADEL: That's right. In relation to the substantive matters.

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. Mr Cooney, are you now on the line?

PN24

MR COONEY: I am. Thank you, Vice President.

PN25

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Just recapping what I said, I was getting a bit confused, but so we're clear; the applications to vary the coverage by Oxfam, Greenpeace, Amnesty and UNHCR have all been withdrawn. All right.

PN26

MR COONEY: Yes.

PN27

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So I'm just getting a feel for what the next steps are, and as I understand papers are being filed by 8 May?

PN28

MR COONEY: Yes. Correct, Vice President.

PN29

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's going to outline what are the substantive matters to go to arbitration; is that correct?

PN30

MR COONEY: Yes. With just a brief outline of submissions, number of witnesses and whether it's a merit or witness argument.

PN31

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. And there's no further conference anticipated. I've spoken to Booth DP this morning. So that's the end of the – it's straight to arbitration after that, isn't it?

PN32

MR COONEY: Yes, certainly at this stage, Vice President. We've exhausted the conciliations.

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: As I'm chairing that Full Bench after that material comes in, it will be a question of programing; is that the way you would see it, Mr Cooney?

PN34

MR COONEY: Yes.

PN35

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Have you got an idea of, although the document is not due till 8 May, the scope of what we're talking about?

PN36

MR COONEY: We're still working through that with our branches, Vice President, but we were sort of working on the basis of five to 10 witnesses for the matters that may remain outstanding.

PN37

THE VICE PRESIDENT: These substantive variations are different to what was foreshadowed initially on 1 September, which was classification definitions and coverage of the family day care schedule.

PN38

MR COONEY: I'm not sure about the coverage of the family day care schedule, and we go back to our application, I guess you'd call it, made in March 2015.

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Fifteen.

PN40

MR COONEY: Yes.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. That's the classification definitions?

PN42

MR COONEY: Yes. Yes, and we're still working through those issues and if the matter hasn't been finalised by 8 May then we'll be lodging our brief submission then.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. So there's no additional topics apart from those originally foreshadowed in September 2016?

PN44

MR COONEY: No, certainly not at this stage.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Is that the case from the other parties?

PN46

MR ROBSON: Vice President, have you seen a copy of the report we gave to President Ross about the outcome of conciliations?

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have seen that.

PN48

MR ROBSON: Yes. I believe that there were more substantive issues that may not have been dealt through conciliation that are going to be taken to arbitration. United Voice have a number of claims that it is likely due to arbitration that was set out in our submissions from March 2015 and then a few additional matters that were added in after the submissions from September.

PN49

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. So they'll all be formalised in this 8 May document?

PN50

MR ROBSON: Yes, indeed.

PN51

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Are the employers pursuing anything?

PN52

MS ZADEL: Ms Zadel from AFEI again. It's going to depend on the agreement that's reached, if any agreement is reached prior to 8 May, but it's likely that AFEI would be pursuing some matters that it original made submissions on.

PN53

MS CHAN: Ms Chan on behalf ABI and New South Wales Business Chamber here, Vice President. Again, depending on whether agreement is reached at all, we may be in the position where we are pursuing either no further substantive claim or we may be pursuing a number of the claims, if there is no agreement on a proposed ‑ ‑ ‑

PN54

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So are the parties having meetings between now and 8 May to sort this out?

PN55

MR ROBSON: There's a single issue – I suppose the single issue remains in the conciliation is the ASU sought extra time to consult with its members and I think it's really down to whether we can reach an agreement on a sleepover clause or, you know, exclude that from the package of settled items I'd understand.

PN56

MR COONEY: Yes, your Honour, look I would agree with that, and we're in the process now of just consulting with our members for the clauses that we think may be reached agreement upon and we will be replying to that by 8 May with other parties.

PN57

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. So after 8 May the next steps is then to list the matter to programming?

PN58

MR COONEY: Yes, I'd agree with that.

PN59

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. So I just want to be clear that there's no further conciliation steps required after 8 May. It's really to do a proper program?

PN60

MR COONEY: Yes, Vice President. Look, certainly at this stage that would seem to be the situation.

PN61

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Any other comments from anyone else?

PN62

MS CHAN: Ms Chan here. We would concur with that assessment.

PN63

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Then I'll wait till the President receives the report from 8 May, and then after that I'll bring the matter back on for programming.

PN64

MR COONEY: Thank you, Vice President.

PN65

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you, everyone.

PN66

MR ROBSON: Thank you, Vice President.

PN67

MS ZADEL: Thank you, Vice President.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [8.40 AM]