PN1

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, good afternoon. Although this is a conference, the proceedings are being transcribed and I'll be sitting up here because of the camera positioning. I might, for the record, get you all to announce your appearance, beginning perhaps with you, Ms Devasia.

PN2

MS A DEVASIA: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN3

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: You can stay seated.

PN4

MS DEVASIA: Ms Devasia for the AMWU, initial A.

PN5

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Smith.

PN6

MR S SMITH: Smith, initial S, for the Australian Industry Group.

PN7

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Mr Wilkinson.

PN8

MR D WILKINSON: Wilkinson D for the Printing Industries Association of Australia.

PN9

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Just checking. Thank you, and in Melbourne?

PN10

MR P MITCHELL: Mitchell P, initial P, on behalf of the Printing Industries Association of Australia.

PN11

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you, Mr Mitchell, and in Newcastle?

PN12

MS M TIEDMAN: Tiedman, initial M, on behalf of ABI and the New South Wales Business Chamber.

PN13

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you, and on the telephone?

PN14

MS M HOGAN: Hogan, initial M, for the AMWU.

PN15

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There was a request for video facilities to be made available in Brisbane and as you can see from the picture, nobody is there at the moment but we'll leave the connection for the time being in case somebody's running late. Ms Devasia, I understand the AMWU asked for this conference, so - - -

PN16

MS DEVASIA: That's correct, Commissioner. The reason the AMWU has asked for it to be listed is essentially just to kickstart the process again. As you would be aware, there were ongoing discussions last year about how the competency package devolved – competency package should go into the exposure draft. AIG and AMWU were in talks right up until March last year and we were asked to put together what the package would like, which was provided to the AIG.

PN17

Unfortunately, there's been some delay over the past few months as there's been staffing changes but in September of last year we provided to the AIG, and, I think, to the PIA but I may be mistaken, a list of what the new competency package needs to look like that we were proposing to put into the exposure draft.

PN18

It's basically a package that reflects the reiteration of the training packages. The training package has gone through about five evolutions since the time that it was first put in. We have also provided to the AIG a comparison of points between the package as it exists in the current award and what we were wanting to put in. It shows the differentials and the points that would be in the package as well as some of the new competencies that need to go in, particularly in relation to 3D printing or some of the networking capabilities that workers will be using.

PN19

The main additions have been highlighted to AIG. However, we've come to basically a stall, I guess, in that we don't know exactly what the AIG's position is in relation to the package or what the other industry partners are also thinking on it. I do know that there has been ongoing discussions at industry level about what the training packages need to look like as they go forward

PN20

The AMWU is quite cognisant of the fact that this proposed competency package may be up for review in three or four years but as it stands now, or as we propose now, I think, is an accurate reflection of what the industry is doing. We're just waiting to see, I guess, what the AIG would like to do with this and where we'd like to go so that we can actually get this moving and put it into the exposure draft.

PN21

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. Mr Smith.

PN22

MR SMITH: Yes, thank you, your Honour. This issue of competency standards and the Graphics Arts Award has a very long history. In fact, there's a decision of Senior Deputy President Marsh where she noted that it took 15 years for the proceedings before, I think, three members of the Commission culminating with her Honour to finally conclude with a link between the competency standards and the Graphic Arts Award and - - -

PN23

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That sounds like a submission that Ms Devasia is too young to remember and she should be patient.

PN24

MR SMITH: Well, I spent 13 year of the 15 years involved and Sally Taylor, who's just left the AMWU, was there for the full 15 so it did have a very long history. When we saw a claim made to disturb the outcome of that case, we were not enthusiastic about re-visiting all of that so hence we were very cautious about it because the competency standards are directly linked to the classifications and directly linked to wage rates so disturbing the competencies can have significant implications for wage rates.

PN25

We started a process of discussion with the AMWU in the context that we understood there was an agreement reached between PIAA and the AMWU on this issue so that was the context that we were involved in the discussions in respect of. Originally all we had was a copy of a training package and we said "Well that's not going to be suitable as an award provision. You can't just tack a whole training package on the back of an award" and through a process of to-ing and fro-ing and discussion we ultimately got a copy of a draft order that would vary the schedule in the award to add certain competencies and take competencies away and we got that late last year and in response to that we said "Can we have a table which identifies the competencies that are currently there, the weights that those competencies have been assigned in the current package", which is the weighting system that relates to classification outcomes.

PN26

The old competency, the new competency and the weights associated with the two so that we can see what would be the implications for classifications. We received that document in March of this year and we've had a look at it but we need a little more time because it's a lengthy document and the issue is quite complicated but, at this stage, our position is that we understood, as I said earlier, that there was an agreement between the other parties.

PN27

We had not made a decision as to whether we were going to press an objection to it. We do recognise that a great deal of work has been done by the AMWU to alleviate our concerns and what will need to happen, in our view, soon is that perhaps a copy of the proposed draft order should be filed so that any parties with an interest can see the specific award variation that the AMWU is seeking to make and to the extent that it's a document that the AMWU's prepared to share, this table identifying the old competencies and the new competencies and the weights, so that would give everyone the information that they need to decide on whether or not there's support for the variation. Thank you.

PN28

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you, Mr Smith. Mr Wilkinson.

PN29

MR WILKINSON: Yes, your Honour. I have come into this relatively recently and even though there was a situation, I understand, where PIAA had agreed with the AMWU on a particular format, we are now re-visiting that because we've sort of been left out of the picture a little bit since then because we haven't been right up to keeping up to speed in these proceedings. If I could ask and agree with what Mr Smith has mentioned for it to go on the website for us to have another look at those, considering a couple of changes that may have come about with the Printing Industries Association's current stance. If we could have a look at that, that'd be great.

PN30

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. Anything from the New South Wales Business Chamber?

PN31

MS TIEDMAN: Thank you, your Honour. I too have come into this quite late. The AMWU did provide me with the documents to which Mr Smith refers to on Friday so I have seen them but I haven't had a chance to consider them fully. We just came along to get an understanding of where the matter is at because we haven't been privy to the discussions either that have occurred between AI Group and the AMWU. I'm content with the course that Mr Smith offered.

PN32

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. Ms Devasia.

PN33

MS DEVASIA: Commissioner, I just point out that with the PIAA, the reason that we didn't forward the documents really was that the discussions were with the AIG and our impression was that PIAA had actually agreed to the entirety of the training package to go in. What we are proposing is actually a truncated version of the training package to address AIG's concerns and to better reflect what's actually in the current award at the moment. But I'm happy to provide whatever documentation that they need.

PN34

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, in any event, what seems to be proposed, which has some sense behind it, and that is that if the AMWU were to prepare a draft order together with the table, which is, I gather, a translation guide?

PN35

MS DEVASIA: It's a comparison document, yes, but I can provide that.

PN36

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. If you provide a draft order and the table which sets out the comparison between the current provision and that which is proposed, that can go up on the Commission's award modernisation website. The parties can be given say a period of four weeks to indicate whether they object to the variation as proposed being made and if so, to briefly set out the nature of their objection and then we can determine whether the appropriate course is to deal with those objections by way of a short conference, if they're not too complex, or alternatively by a hearing but will also give you, Ms Devasia, an opportunity to understand what, if any, objections are taken and you might enter into discussions with any objecting party to resolve any outstanding issues.

PN37

MS DEVASIA: I understand.

PN38

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Is that a satisfactory course?

PN39

MS DEVASIA: Yes.

PN40

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. If you provide that material to my chambers as soon as practicable and we'll facilitate that material being put on the website together with directions in the manner that I've just set out. Thank you. All right. Is there anything else?

PN41

MR SMITH: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN42

MS DEVASIA: Thank you, your Honour.

PN43

MR WILKINSON: Thank you, your Honour.

PN44

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you all for your attendance.

PN45

MR MITCHELL: Thank you.

PN46

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We'll proceed on that basis. We're adjourned.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.47 PM]