PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good morning, I'll just take the appearances in this order. Mr Molnar, you're there with Mr Miller?

PN2

MR MOLNAR: That's correct, your Honour.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have from Aviair and RAAA, Mr Martin?

PN4

MR MARTIN: That's correct, your Honour.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: From Ai Group, Mr Ferguson.

PN6

MR FERGUSON: Yes, your Honour.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Srdanovic from the entities within the Qantas Group for both ground, pilot staff.

PN8

MS SRDANOVIC: Yes, your Honour.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms De Pinto-Smith from Alliance.

PN10

MS DE PINTO-SMITH: Yes, your Honour.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Thank you to the parties for reaching and accommodating in relation to the proposed directions. I brought the matter on for further mention for a couple of things I wanted to discuss with the parties. First, I am not comfortable with the matter simply going on hold until 17 April. In other words, not having hearing dates and programming of the actual proper matter. Mr Molnar, you'll have your material on by 13 February.

PN12

MR MOLNAR: Yes.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Presumably at that point you'll have identified all your witnesses and we'll have a fair idea of at least half the length of the hearing.

PN14

MR MOLNAR: Yes, absolutely.

PN15

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I'm trying to work out whether the most effective way is to bring the matter on after your evidence, or wait till the evidence of the employer groups to set a hearing date, or alternatively to have a guess now and set the dates because being a Full Bench, I don't want this matter dragging much longer than it needs to be. Because if we were to leave the matter up until 17 April for reporting back, we would be in very late hearing dates, and I'm concerned about that. Do you have a view, Mr Molnar?

PN16

MR MOLNAR: As we understand it and Mr Martin can correct me but I think that Mr Martin is proposing to put in a form 46 in relation to clause 16 of the award, and I'm not sure about the scope of those amendments. They might be just broader than the clause 16.2, but Mr Martin would be in a better position than me.

PN17

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Mr Martin?

PN18

MR MARTIN: Yes, your Honour, we are seeking instructions in relation to whether or not to put on an application for a substantive amendment. Unfortunately, because of the time when we became involved in this matter, we don't have those final instructions as yet and the intention was to try and get those and put on any substantive amendment application by 16 January. The issue that is being considered by the regional operators is enhanced clarity over what training is the subject of clause 16 and then also just what training may be subject to or the position in relation to training (indistinct).

PN19

Now I'm unfortunately not in a position to be able to indicate whether or not those applications will be made at this stage and so it does I accept make it difficult for the court and - or the Commission and the other parties to give a reasonable estimation, as to the length of the - of a likely hearing of those applications.

PN20

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right, well, subject to the views of the parties, how about we do this. I bring the matter back on - leave the timetable as it currently exists and I bring the matter back on for further mention on Monday, 18 February. By that stage we will have at least the amendments on from other side, and the arguments from the applicant union. Does anybody have a disagreement with that course of action?

PN21

MR MARTIN: Not from the (indistinct).

PN22

MS SRDANOVIC: For the Qantas Group, Ms Srdanovic here. That sounds sensible to us, your Honour.

PN23

MS DE PINTO-SMITH: (Indistinct) from Alliance as well.

PN24

MR MILLER: Sounds agreeable to our group too.

PN25

MR FERGUSON: And to the RAAA.

PN26

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So I'll estimate it then for mention, 18 February 2019. I anticipate on that date that the parties should have a rough idea of the length of hearing and it may well be that hearing dates are set upon that mention. Albeit that I appreciate that the respondent's evidence is not on, at least we can perhaps lock in a number of days, it's better to take days out later than try to find days.

PN27

MR MARTIN: Yes.

PN28

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I thank the parties for this morning, thank you.

PN29

MR MARTIN: Thank you, your Honour.

PN30

MR FERGUSON: Thank you, your Honour.

PN31

MS SRDANOVIC: Thank you, your Honour.

PN32

MR MOLNAR: Thank you, your Honour.

PN33

MR MILLER: Thank you, your Honour.

PN34

MS DE PINTO-SMITH: Thank you, your Honour.

ADJOURNED UNTIL MONDAY, 18 FEBRUARY 2019 [8.35 AM]